Второй закон Годвина
Apr. 26th, 2019 01:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ny_quantЛюбая дискуссия о прогрессе непременно доходит до обсуждения электрических автомобилей. Думаю, что до всемирной славы первооткрывательницы обратного карго культа мне не дотянуть, но пусть это будет мой скромный claim to fame.
Короче, в продолжение предыдущего поста, пара недавних ссылок про это самое. Если кратко, то дорого и бесполезно.
https://www.axios.com/electric-vehicles-automaker-investments-battery-costs-4243415a-305e-45b5-bddf-29a91011da77.html
http://brusselstimes.com/business/technology/15050/electric-vehicles-emit-more-co2-than-diesel-ones,-german-study-
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no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 04:06 am (UTC)More convenient that charging at home??
> 4. Highly doubt that. I’m sure Germans and japs are ahead in electronics. Can Tesla handle black ice on the road better? Can it predict the turns of the road and incline the body? Im sure not. And cheap features like radars exist everywhere now.
Why would you say that? The car cam drive itself for 100 miles on the highway and take interchanges. No other car you can buy is capable of that.
I am not an expert on handling but professional drivers were impressed. You can read various reviews. Electric motors are generally better as they have much fine control.
> 7. My 15K Honda did that
Really, remote start and interior temperature control through an app? Also if you start a gas car in you garage what about the fumes?
> 8. Breaks you need to change like all others.
This is incorrect. There is very little wear on brakes in electric cars. Most braking is regenerative.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 04:53 am (UTC)https://jalopnik.com/the-truth-about-brake-pad-replacement-in-teslas-and-oth-1831591519
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 05:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 05:25 pm (UTC)I’m arguing that breaks changes are fewer but not non-existent.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 05:05 am (UTC)Other brands also have self-driving systems. The fact you can’t buy them is just due to that they don’t sell that in US. Besides, Tesla got some problems with its self-driving by crashing to the post and making red lights.
More details: https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/a27269684/self-driving-cars/
But I personally hate self-driving. I don’t even use cruise features - that takes fun out of driving and turns car to a train.
The handling is not all about a motor but about various complicated systems, torque distribution etc. I remember drivers were impressed by Tesla’s handling on the test track, but that’s just test track.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 07:27 pm (UTC)Btw, I found nothing about Tesla crashing to the post and making red lights in the linked article.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 07:57 pm (UTC)А потом это сильно зависит от условий и дороги. По некоторым дорогам и 65 ехать напряжно.
Что я не люблю в круизах - они станут в полосу и стоят за кем-нибудь. А весь фан в изучении и предсказании поведения, в лавировании. Раньше (и по правилам) левая была для обгона. Теперь все сидят в левой, а правая - пуста...
Вообщем, я думаю, фан можно найти почти всегда. Кроме локальных дорог.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 09:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 05:09 am (UTC)7. From the key. Garage door opens - no fumes.
This slowly become a religious war ;). If you like those features of Tesla - good for you, then Tesla is your car. But not mine. Both views are fine. Just don’t claim that Tesla is the only rational choice.
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 05:31 am (UTC)Look, you are certainly free to value or not value certain features, such as self-driving, home charging or fewer brake changes depending on your personal experience. But why deny that these are all objective advantages?
The only disadvantage I can see is longer charging time on long trips. Perhaps it is a deal-breaker for some people. But so far you have not given me any other compelling reasons.
I do not say that choosing a $20k Honda over $50k Tesla is irrational. However a comparably priced BMW or Audi is clearly inferior (which is the reason Tesla outsells them by a large margin in recent quarters).
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 05:24 pm (UTC)Why, I admitted the advantages of no oil changes and agree with fewer brake changes (not never - fewer).
And I gave you the list of the reasons I’m not buying (yet):
“I won’t buy Tesla because: a) charging time and potential wait if station is full b) major problems with fixing it if in accident c) unknown and unexplored safety risks when the car burns after the collision.”
no subject
Date: 2019-04-27 11:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 01:15 am (UTC)No spare tire - days in dealership waiting for new tire an no loaner.
Hours on auto hold if you need any support, no one replies to emails, mdealership managers don’t care.
Days in dealership before anyone pays attention to the car.
Rattling and other noises they can’t fix.
Misrepresented range in lower temperatures and higher speeds.
Absence of features like ventilated seats / heated steering.
No smartphone integration - are you kidding me, Ilon Mask??
And you keep saying Tesla is the obvious choice...
I assume, in some distant future Tesla will be a good option. Now it simply the worst.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 01:50 am (UTC)Personal experience:
1. I actually had a flat, they towed me (for free) and replaced the tire (not for free) in an hour. (Still having a spare would be nice).
2. > Hours on auto hold if you need any support,
Simply not true -- hold time is probably about 15 minutes. Still too long but nowhere close to hours. In fact they can call an ambulance if there is an accident, Tesla will transmit sensor readings.
3. >Days in dealership before anyone pays attention to the car. Rattling and other noises they can’t fix.
Not my (or colleagues who have the car) experience. I think early M3 cars had rattling noises and interior issues.
4. > Misrepresented range in lower temperatures and higher speeds.
There are two range estimates -- the battery remaining and the actual estimated range. The first one does not depend on the conditions (it is meant to indicate the remaining battery charge) and can be innacurate. The second is far more accurate and depends on conditions/driving style. When you are on a trip there is a fairly accurate estimate of the battery level at destination.
5. > Absence of features like ventilated seats / heated steering.
I would like to have a heated steering wheel. However I preheat (or pre-cool in the summer) the car from the app, so in most cases so it is not crucial.
6. No smartphone integration - are you kidding me, Ilon Mask??
What do you mean by that?? Smart phone integration is one of the best features of the car.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 02:58 am (UTC)4 - and what this try range is? Is it 300 as advertised?
6 - the report on edmunds.com I refer to stated that Tesla didn’t have apple car play or android whatever.
Regardless, I’d definitely prefer to wait until those issues will be solved and only then buy.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 03:47 am (UTC)Actually, now they update you on the status automatically through the app. But I have never had to leave the car in the shop so I don't know how well that works. You can schedule service through the app though, which is nice -- I did it when I had a minor issue with the charging port. You just choose a time on the app and leave a comment describing the problem. (In fact they offered me a loaner but I decided to wait in the shop)
> 4 - and what this try range is? Is it 300 as advertised?
In the summer I get around 300 miles at about 70-75mph with air conditioning. You go further at 60mph or less if you go 85. In the winter it depends. It could probably go down to around 220 miles if it is seriously cold and there is snow on the ground. The system will take that into account calculating the route to the destination.
> 6 - the report on edmunds.com I refer to stated that Tesla didn’t have apple car play or android whatever.
Oh, I see. Android/apple will never happen, I am afraid -- they want to control the screen. However there is a large variety of streaming podcasts, music and also a built-in internet browser. Right now you cannot watch youtube though. They will probably add some video capability in one of the future updates.
> Regardless, I’d definitely prefer to wait until those issues will be solved and only then buy.
Sure. I feel that there is an incredible amount of poor information online -- trying to provide some more accurate info.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 09:38 pm (UTC)But could your positive experience be a result of your good luck?
I have seen reports on poor customer service enough times to conclude that it’s systematic. Why do you entertain a theory that you’re clearing poor information rather than theory that you’re just in luck not to face such disappointments?
Those rattles were reported on 2018 S models, not the first Teslas you have mentioned.
And it’s not that I’m such Tesla hater - it’s quite normal and expected for new models to have those problems. Typically, after some time either things become better and most of the problems are fixed or that line is dropped. I just want the car which has already went trough this process and don’t want to be a guiney pig tester for my money.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 10:02 pm (UTC)> Why do you entertain a theory that you’re clearing poor information rather than theory that you’re just in luck not to face such disappointments?
Some information is objectively poor or incorrect (e.g., people misunderstand what range indicator does or don't realize that one can charge car at home).
As far as the customer experience is concerned, I am just one data point, of course. It is likely also to be geographically different. I've read that in Norway (a huge market for EVs) there have been a lot of issues with insufficient part supply.
> Those rattles were reported on 2018 S models, not the first Teslas you have mentioned.
I meant first model 3's from late 2017/early 2018. I don't know much about model S.
> And it’s not that I’m such Tesla hater - it’s quite normal and expected for new models to have those problems. Typically, after some time either things become better and most of the problems are fixed or that line is dropped. I just want the car which has already went trough this process and don’t want to be a guiney pig tester for my money.
That is very fair. Although I suspect there is always a bit of guinea pig angle with Tesla :) -- with their constant software updates. Personally I enjoy it as the car keeps getting better, but it is probably not for everyone.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-01 10:47 pm (UTC)Regarding your statement that people sometimes are unaware of features:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oUzhBkCrf-c
no subject
Date: 2019-05-02 02:33 am (UTC)