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[personal profile] ny_quant
Неутомимый юзер [livejournal.com profile] e2pii1 нашел простое и понятное объяснению дебильному поведению европейцев, которые жгут древесину и полагают что это очень зелено и прогрессивно, о чем я сообщал неделю назад.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2021/07/us/american-south-biomass-energy-invs/

How the American South is paying the price for Europe's 'green' energy.
In its Renewable Energy Directive (RED), the EU classified biomass as a renewable energy source.
Burning wood is less efficient than burning coal and releases far more carbon into the atmosphere, according to almost 800 scientists who wrote a 2018 letter to the European parliament.
In 1996, scientists at the United Nations devised a method to measure global carbon emissions. To simplify the process, they suggested emissions from burning biomass should be calculated where the trees are cut down, not where the wood pellets are burned.

Вот это последнее я как-то не уловил из статьи в Таймс, которую я нашел сам.

scientists at the United Nations - это звучит гордо!

Date: 2022-08-05 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] olaff67.livejournal.com
Наука, когда выполняет поставленную извне задачу, превращается в технику.

Date: 2022-08-05 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
в проститутку

Date: 2022-08-05 06:47 pm (UTC)
spamsink: (blessed)
From: [personal profile] spamsink
releases far more carbon into the atmosphere

Completely meaningless without a qualifying statement "than X" or "per Y".

classified biomass as a renewable energy source

The obvious reasoning here is that the carbon in the biomass had been recently sequestered, and that sequestering can be readily repeated.

Date: 2022-08-05 07:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
> Completely meaningless without a qualifying statement "than X" or "per Y"

"Хоботов, это мелко!" ;)

> The obvious reasoning here is that the carbon in the biomass had been recently sequestered,

Carbon is carbon. From the point of view of minimizing CO2 emissions, it makes no difference when it was sequestered. If they really cared about that, wood would be their last choice. Instead, it is first.

> and that sequestering can be readily repeated.

Depending on what you mean by readily, depending on the subsequent land use etc.

Date: 2022-08-05 08:10 pm (UTC)
spamsink: (blessed)
From: [personal profile] spamsink
"Хоботов, это мелко!" ;)

Упомянуть эту мелочь ничего не стоило бы, а её отсутствие просто бросается в глаза.

"CO2 emissions" per se are meaningless. Burning wood does not increase the "above-ground" carbon, but burning any fossil fuel does.


Date: 2022-08-05 09:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
It's the other way around. "Above ground carbon" is meaningless (doesn't enter any calculation) while CO2 emissions are not.

Date: 2022-08-06 12:49 am (UTC)
spamsink: (blessed)
From: [personal profile] spamsink
Above ground carbon, as far as its total amount is relatively constant, as it was for millennia, fluctuates back and forth between the atmosphere and the biomass more or less in sync with long-term solar activity.

It is only the carbon coming from the underground which skews the equilibrium.

Date: 2022-08-06 12:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vsopvs.livejournal.com
немного не по теме: а почему про озонную дыру замолчали? помнится, была популярна...

Date: 2022-08-06 02:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
Как я понимаю, она потихоньку зарастает.

Date: 2022-08-06 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
Это верно.

Date: 2022-08-06 02:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vsopvs.livejournal.com
я по такому случаю не поленился, посмотрел ngram (https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=ozone&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cozone%3B%2Cc0)

вы правы, зарастает

Date: 2022-08-09 11:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vershnik2.livejournal.com
Про ураганы тоже замолчали, потому что в этом году еще ни одного большого не было.

Date: 2022-08-09 01:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
Пишут: https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/fewer-storms-but-above-average-hurricane-season-still-expected/ar-AA10jfxl

Date: 2022-08-10 11:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cryinstone.livejournal.com
Я бы хотел обратить внимание на следующий пассаж:

Enviva received 15% of those once living, standing trees — deemed “lower-value wood” by the biomass industry because it doesn’t meet the specifications for lumber.

То есть, все-таки лес рубят ради других целей, и только около 15% древесины, которая низкого качества и не годится ни на что более - грубо говоря, отходы, идет на топливо.

Date: 2022-08-10 11:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
Это ещё не значит, что ее надо непременно жечь.

Date: 2022-08-11 12:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cryinstone.livejournal.com
Да, не означает, что надо обязательно жечь - хотя, что с ней делать - неясно.

Date: 2022-08-11 02:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
Я подозреваю, что не во всех странах одинаковые specifications for lumber. Еще не забыл как выглядела советская доска.

Date: 2022-08-11 09:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cryinstone.livejournal.com
Есть, наверное, такие части, дерева, как кора и ветки, которые по-любому не lumber (забыл, как это слово по-русски). Которые можно и не сжигать, но на мебель они не годятся.

Date: 2022-08-11 10:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
Да, пожалуй.

Date: 2022-08-18 03:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] e2pii1.livejournal.com
Судя по действиям "борцов с климатом", только carbon coming from the white people skews the equilibrium, carbon coming from yellow, black and muslim people is completely harmless.

Date: 2022-08-18 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com
Not really. They are very much concerned with emissions from China and India.

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