ny_quant: (Default)
ny_quant ([personal profile] ny_quant) wrote2023-10-26 04:05 pm

Антисемитизм в UPenn

Мы больше слышим про гарварды и прочие разные стэнфорды, но оказывается наиболее яркая драка происходит в UPenn, где с одной стороны выступают президент универа Elizabeth Magill и председатель совета попечителей Scott Bok, а с другой группа богатых доноров, в том числе и евреев, но не только. Блумберг довольно подробно распедалил, вот несколько цитат:


Bok and Magill had supported the decision to hold the three-day Palestine Writes Literature Festival at Penn’s Wolf Humanities Center in September, dismissing the concerns of alumni including Apollo’s Rowan about controversial speakers they said had a history of antisemitic rhetoric.

Although we haven’t met, you may know me by Silverman Hall, the Silverman scholars and the Silverman professor...

I respectfully request that you both do the right thing and resign from your positions...

“We’re not going to be held hostage by a minority of donors,” [a board member] Rachleff said. “If you want a premiere faculty, you have to support free speech.”

But some alumni disagree, including donors who’ve contributed to its $20.5 billion endowment, buildings and scholarships. Hedge fund manager Cliff Asness said he’s “100% for free speech but not asymmetrical free speech where some have it and some don’t.”

“Hiding behind ‘free speech’ when it is a right only embraced for antisemites and other fellow travelers is not ok.”

Apollo’s Rowan said Bok called him and suggested he step down from his post as chairman of Wharton’s Board of Advisors after he signed the open letter to the university expressing his concerns about the Palestine Writes festival.

At least two trustees, who are Jewish, have said Bok asked them to resign for signing the same letter, with one told not to come to the upcoming board meeting in November, according to people familiar with the discussions. In a text message to one of the trustees, Bok wrote: “Your role is untenable.”

Since neither Magill nor Bok have plans to step down, the trustees will ultimately decide what happens next. Rachleff said calls to replace Bok haven’t gained enough momentum and are unlikely to come up during Penn’s board meeting next week.


В общем, не супер-оптимистично но хоть кто-то сопротивляется.

[identity profile] misha-b.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 08:38 pm (UTC)(link)
The issue is not clear to me. I have been against blocking speakers from campuses based on their political views -- is this different?

[identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 08:42 pm (UTC)(link)
The keyword here is asymmetric.

[identity profile] misha-b.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I understand and it bothers me a lot. But I don't know what to think about it personally.

[identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 10:32 pm (UTC)(link)
The null-hypothesis (mine anyway) is that there is a lot of antisemitism in the academia (and among "progressives" in general), however acquired, probably as as a part of the overall package of "liberal values" or maybe otherwise.

[identity profile] misha-b.livejournal.com 2023-10-27 01:38 am (UTC)(link)
I was thinking more about this asymmetry issue. Clearly asymmetry is problematic, but should I personally support banning people from campus if their view are repulsive to me? I am not sure.

I think there is a lot of antisemitism on the very left and very right. Of course, extreme right is not common in academia, so most of academic antisemitism seems to be on the left. I am not sure it is directly related to "liberal values" whatever those may be.

[identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com 2023-10-27 03:47 am (UTC)(link)
Think about this and let me know whether you still support her right to free speech given that change of one word will immediately end your career and productive life.

A proud anti-Semite spotted at a protest of NYU students at Washington Square. (Just imagine this sign would say "keep the world clean of black people"). pic.twitter.com/yzz7o15d64 (https://t.co/yzz7o15d64)

— NYScanner (@nyscanner) October 25, 2023 (https://twitter.com/nyscanner/status/1717267240708411698?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)


I'm not 100% sure either but in my mind the likeliest explanation is a particular case of identity politics.

[identity profile] misha-b.livejournal.com 2023-10-27 03:54 am (UTC)(link)
It is disgusting, but isn't it the point of the free speech?

Certainly, if I were a business owner I would not want any employee with such views.

You might be right about a connection to identity politics but I am not sure how it connects exactly.

[identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com 2023-10-27 04:09 am (UTC)(link)
The point of free speech is to allow this on equal terms with something like "ship the niggers back to Africa". But this is not how it is, is it? Just an example of asymmetry.

I don't know exactly how but for all I know people don't like to be in minority. You come to say a student (or faculty) lounge where everyone is cursing Trump. You need to have brass balls to stand up in his defense. Everyone is crying about how climate change. You need to have brass balls to tell them that this is a pile of cram. Everyone is condemning the Jews for oppressing innocent palestinian civilians ... you got the idea. Fast forward a few years and you won't even remember that you haven't always shared those opinions. Gradually they become the part of your identity. This is how it works. You get incorporated gradually, one day at a time.

[identity profile] misha-b.livejournal.com 2023-10-27 12:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree that the speech should be on equal terms but that does not quite answer the question.

The crowd mentality is, of course, an important element of this. Still there is a big gap between being concerned about the climate and justifying murders of children.

[identity profile] Алексей Орлов (from livejournal.com) 2023-11-01 01:32 pm (UTC)(link)
Осталось понять, почему позднесоветская пропаганда с таким трудом внедрялась в качестве your identity.

[identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com 2023-11-01 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
В некоторых группах населения внедрялась не так уж плохо, но даже пролетариям немного мешало постоянное ухудшение качества жизни.

Интеллигенция давно уже не верила пропаганде так что диссиденты на самом деле не были в меньшинстве в своем социальном слое.

[identity profile] Алексей Орлов (from livejournal.com) 2023-11-01 03:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Верно. Но это мало помогает объяснению, как в эпоху какого-никакого плюрализма и еще интернета, механизм заработал неожиданно хорошо.

[identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com 2023-11-01 03:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Чего проще. Раньше шушукались на кухнях. А теперь открыл варежку на Х и вот уже весь мир знает что ты за птица. Ату его, сукина сына!

[identity profile] Алексей Орлов (from livejournal.com) 2023-11-01 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Похоже на правду. Можно мягче и наукообразнее выразиться: осуждение референтной группы весомее [недостаточно] суровых государственных репрессий.

[identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com 2023-11-01 03:27 pm (UTC)(link)
У меня на кухне можно не стесняться в выборе выражений.

[identity profile] sydorov47.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 09:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Like

[identity profile] tercia.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 09:30 pm (UTC)(link)
это был не просто день в сентябре. это был йом киппур.

[identity profile] ny-quant.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 10:00 pm (UTC)(link)
Все совпадения совершенно случайны, как в кино.

[identity profile] tercia.livejournal.com 2023-10-27 06:03 pm (UTC)(link)
абсолютно случайны!

[identity profile] sydorov47.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 09:40 pm (UTC)(link)
"Деньги давайте, а мнение оставте при себе".

[identity profile] stumari.livejournal.com 2023-10-26 10:48 pm (UTC)(link)
они там не то, что сами не уходят, они еще и требуют, что те кто подписал письмо (которое, фри-спич-чемпионам им не нравится) ушли

[identity profile] aklepatc.livejournal.com 2023-10-27 02:40 am (UTC)(link)
Image

[identity profile] onmynav.livejournal.com 2023-10-27 03:02 am (UTC)(link)
Надо регистрироваться или подписываться, чтобы прочитать
Позвонить и предложить Ровану уйти это хуцпа. Не говоря об иронии
Калабуховский дом давно пропал, судя по программам включения, разнообразия в Вартоне
И пловец этот, то есть пловчиха)) это вроде тоже там
Будем посмотреть, обидно если пшиком закончится